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Yoda
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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Feb 19, 2015 11:40 pm

SG-17 wrote:
Head On Conquest (which Battlefield 4 has exclusively) has two home bases which can't be captured so taking all of the CPs doesn't end the game right away. The other team has a chance to come back.
Okay, I was being stupid, I get what you mean.

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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Feb 20, 2015 12:19 am

LAK brought up the idea of doing a sort of hybrid DS CTF. The map has a 1 hour timer, however if the game is tied at 30 minutes it becomes sudden death for the last 30. This of course would be added to any tie breaking procedure we have as ties would still be possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Feb 20, 2015 12:49 am

Poison wrote:
LAK brought up the idea of doing a sort of hybrid DS CTF. The map has a 1 hour timer, however if the game is tied at 30 minutes it becomes sudden death for the last 30. This of course would be added to any tie breaking procedure we have as ties would still be possible.

So if the score is 2-1 after 30 mins then the game is over?

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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Feb 20, 2015 12:57 am

Yeah.
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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Feb 20, 2015 6:18 am

Poison wrote:
LAK brought up the idea of doing a sort of hybrid DS CTF. The map has a 1 hour timer, however if the game is tied at 30 minutes it becomes sudden death for the last 30. This of course would be added to any tie breaking procedure we have as ties would still be possible.
Too long...if it's tied after 30 minutes it's going to a 6th map. 30 minutes is long enough to spend on one map, even our long Mos E maps lasted 25 minutes MAYBE 30, and that's a long Mos E.

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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Feb 20, 2015 8:14 am

The long Mos Eisley maps typically last upwards of 40 minutes.
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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeFri Feb 20, 2015 10:20 am

The best way to resolve Death Star 1 flag is to mod it so the middle becomes a King of the Hill zone Kappa

I think the way it is now is fine, though Tantive CTF is personally more fun

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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSat Feb 21, 2015 7:09 pm

Stern wrote:
The best way to resolve Death Star 1 flag is to mod it so the middle becomes a King of the Hill zone Kappa

I think the way it is now is fine, though Tantive CTF is personally more fun

Pretty smart.

There's gotta be some element that could be modded to change the typical strategy though. Anything that could make people re-think the DS jump.

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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 22, 2015 1:37 am

Death Star is pretty much unplayable at a 30 minute timer or less. I'm not 100% sure which season the timer was implemented but, for at least seven successful BFC seasons Death Star was played without a timer. Then someone got the idea to put an one hour timer on the map, and if it was tied at the end of regulation, it was replayed in sudden death. Now, this was an interesting move, and while I opposed the idea of putting the magnificent DS1F on a silly timer, I will admit though that the timer added an interesting dynamic to game play. Next it was decided that the timer should be moved down to 30 minutes with the same overtime rules. This new rule, with the intentions of creating a faster map, backfired completely and increased the amount of overtimes and double overtimes dramatically. The rule that was originally intended to speed up game play, unintentionally promoted stalling out. So with the increase of ties and time spent on death star another rule was made to answer the problems the previous rule made: a 6th map. Under the previous rule after 30 minutes of gameplay if it was tied, DS went to a sudden death and was replayed until a flag cap was scored. The new rule changed the overtimes rules to include a 6th map be played instead of a sudden death DS in the event of a tie after the 30 minute mark. This rule makes Death Star completely unplayable due to the stall tactics that have developed under grand timer that has become a strong ally to many teams.

Progressively which each new rule DS1 game play got more and more stale. Rules are supposed to enhance game play, not hinder it. Rule ares supposed to encourage us to play at our best and most honorable. Rules put in to place to create an environment that best supports competitive play.  I think its time we really take a look at Death Stars progression and reevaluate our rule making policy towards the map. I'm not foolish of course, i know a Death Star 1 flag with the original rule set of no timer and first to three flag caps will never be reinstated, we have strayed to far away from that to go back. What I do hope, however, is that we can come together on a compromise on a rule set for one of SWBF2s most competitive maps at high level play.

I have already thrown around some ideas on how to appease people who oppose the map while stilling trying to stay true to the glory that is DS and promote good game play from both teams. Hopefully we can all have an open minded conversation about this and others will be temped to come up with their own ideas to fix the problem the BFC has on its hands here. Heres what i have come up with:

1)No timer, first to two flag caps.

2)No timer, first to one flag cap.

3)One hour timer, never ending sudden death in the event of a tie.

4)30 minute timer, never ending sudden death in the event of a tie.  

5) one hour timer, first to two caps wins. < would give a reason for the leading team to get that second cap instead of holding off for the timer.


A 6th map CANNOT be implemented without hurting the level of game play from Death Star. If a 6th map does end up having to be implemented,  The only realistic way to do that without hampering death star to much is this rule set:

1 hour timer, After regulation if the score is tied DS will then go to a single overtime 30 minute length. If that is tied Double overtime would be the 6th map.



I really hope we can get this thing solved because, the current 30 minute timer then 6th map pretty much allows Death Star to be looked over and dismissed. At the very least I expect the current rules to be expanded to an hour long timer. While that wouldn't even begin to solve our problems.. at least with that timer the attacking team has a fighting chance at winning the map. I'm really trying to find some middle ground with those who oppose DS, but i need y'all to give me something here boys! We can't keep creating rules that encourage stale game play then complain about it!
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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 22, 2015 1:49 am

Removing the timer at this point isn't great as it's used for stat-keeping. I prefer 5 or option 3. LAK is right, Death Star is supposed to take some time as it requires a lot of set up and tactics to play. A higher amount of time than 30 minutes is needed for the map to be played to its fullest. A 2 flag limit would in theory keep the leading team on the offensive so I really like that idea.

If we have to have the 6th map, you can still stall for that entire 1 hour and 30 minutes if you want in this method and quite honestly if you manage to do that you've more than earned your 6th map.
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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 22, 2015 1:58 am

To fix the stat issue we could do a number of things to solve the problem. The first and most obvious course of action would be to simply set the timer to the max (which i think is one hour..can someone ???confirm???) and just replay it after. Another would be for the Spectator to just look at his clock when the map starts and ends. wouldn't be to hard to guesstimate.
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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 22, 2015 2:33 am

I'm ok with a 30 minute timer, if it's still tied sudden death.  If at an 1 hour still tied - 6th map.  I still don't like it...because there will be nights I'll just want to throw DS CTF with how stupid the map is, and how long it takes.

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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 22, 2015 10:24 am

Considering only LSJ picks it, and only as the 5th map, I'm sure you could put up with playing Death Star CTF for what turns out to be like once a month, no matter how long it takes

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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 22, 2015 3:06 pm

But surely Delta, faced with the prospect of wasting loads and loads of time playing DSCTF, teams will be more likely to go aggressive and the map will end sooner than you think?

Is there any way to mod the timer so that the length is doubled? So if you put 15 into the RM, it actually does 30 minutes, and 60 would become 120. Maybe excessive modding just for one map though.

I personally think LAK is completely right that if there was no timer, the uber camping would die out. When you can see that you've only got to survive another 10 minutes, say, and the map will be drawn then you must be psychologically less likely to take risks and more likely to flag jump.

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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 22, 2015 5:59 pm

{Delta} wrote:
I'm ok with a 30 minute timer, if it's still tied sudden death.  If at an 1 hour still tied - 6th map.  I still don't like it...because there will be nights I'll just want to throw DS CTF with how stupid the map is, and how long it takes.

I repeat...this would still be an extension over Season 11.

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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 22, 2015 8:49 pm

{Delta} wrote:
{Delta} wrote:
I'm ok with a 30 minute timer, if it's still tied sudden death.  If at an 1 hour still tied - 6th map.  I still don't like it...because there will be nights I'll just want to throw DS CTF with how stupid the map is, and how long it takes.

I repeat...this would still be an extension over Season 11.


Did you just quote yourself?

Klappa

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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 22, 2015 9:18 pm

Scarz wrote:
{Delta} wrote:
{Delta} wrote:
I'm ok with a 30 minute timer, if it's still tied sudden death.  If at an 1 hour still tied - 6th map.  I still don't like it...because there will be nights I'll just want to throw DS CTF with how stupid the map is, and how long it takes.

I repeat...this would still be an extension over Season 11.


Did you just quote yourself?

Klappa

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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Feb 23, 2015 12:37 pm

Stern wrote:
Considering only LSJ picks it, and only as the 5th map, I'm sure you could put up with playing Death Star CTF for what turns out to be like once a month, no matter how long it takes
I agree with Stern and Yoda. It won't probably won't be picked that match, it won't go to map 5 every time, and finally it won't drain the whole clock every time (even though that if the first 2 things do happen, the third one is much more likely, percentage-wise, to happen). So, for few times all that does happen (probably once a season) I would like to play it out. I think its epic and extremely fun, but I do also know that watching 2 teams play it, if they aren't your clan, can be boring to watch. I personally think no timer has always been the best way to play Death Star, this makes it the tiebreaker if its played that way.

If we don't do that, the next best thing is 1 hour, first to 3, with a sudden death that has no timer if the first hour clock runs out. This is basically what LAK said for number 3.

If we didn't do that LAK's suggestion for number 1 is also okay.

As for the lack of timer making stat-keeping harder, I think we can get around that with the spectator using the broadcast recording times on Twitch, or any spectator could use a stopwatch/clock.

I also would want to limit the amount of restarting/rejoining the server. What we did with R for the grunt tournament that one time was kinda lame, had to keep restarting it, but with the timer off we could have finished it in one sitting. I like just getting everyone into the map with no timer and playing it out.

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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Feb 23, 2015 4:35 pm

Sometimes it's hard to believe we are talking about a decade old game here.

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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeMon Feb 23, 2015 11:00 pm

Mike wrote:
As for the lack of timer making stat-keeping harder, I think we can get around that with the spectator using the broadcast recording times on Twitch, or any spectator could use a stopwatch/clock.

Making my job harder is always the obvious choice.
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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeWed Feb 25, 2015 6:55 am

Or we could just get rid of DS CTF and do DS Conquest. So much better... and we dont have to worry about ties.

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{BOT}A-Hole wrote:
Or we could just get rid of DS CTF and do DS Conquest. So much better... and we dont have to worry about ties.

???
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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Feb 26, 2015 8:44 am

Does Death Star conquest still have that reinforcement bug, or is there anyway around it?
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DoomGaze wrote:
Does Death Star conquest still have that reinforcement bug, or is there anyway around it?


There is a mod that can be put in place.
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PostSubject: Re: Which map is the most common?   Which map is the most common? - Page 4 Icon_minitimeThu Feb 26, 2015 5:54 pm

That was one of the first things we fixed back in 2007. Though there is a theory that it was done on purpose to counter the advantages the Rebels have on the map.

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